Posts tagged with Treats - Gameful

Treat Treatise: Community Challenge #1

Apr 26, 2011 at 2:09 am in post by Nathan Maton

Community member Jeff Rose summed up the sentiment around the discussed treat mod best writing, “Game Designers, let’s rule Gameful.”  We couldn’t have said it better ourselves.  FTW!  In response to all of your excellent feedback we’d like to let you rule through a game design challenge.  

The Challenge:

As you’ve figured out, our treat system wasn’t foolproof.  So as game designers we want you to think about how to best design a system to meet the goals we’d like to accomplish (or feel free to suggest your own goal in your submission).  This will be just the first of hopefully many game design mods over the years to come on Gameful.  

Our Goals:

  • To create a meaningful reward system for acting, discussing, and collaborating on Gameful
  • To encourage people to log in on a reoccurring basis and interact
  • To create a platform for exchange to build a collaborative environment
  • To discourage hoarding of treats

The Rules:

  1. What is the equation or set of equations used to determine the treat values (treat index, treats given, treats received) and accrual of treats (treats received for logging in, accrued over time)
  2. How does your modification accomplish the goals above?
  3. If you have any evidence for why the mod you suggest is the best way, please be sure to provide it.
  4. Submit your challenges in this group.

Rewards: 

  • Credits in our Gameful Wiki
  • Insight on how the playtest ends up working
  • 25,000 treats per team member

We look forward to seeing your suggestions.  Feel free to tackle the issue on your own or with a team.  We’d like to see your submissions by May 1st and will get back to you by May 8th on which we’ll playtest first.

Thanks!

We have no cohesion.

Apr 7, 2011 at 4:48 am in post by Owen Morris

Right now I’ve discovered a few things about this site that don’t seem to be A-common knowledge or B- readily availible information. I found @Fiero-Monster, who I believe to be the only current place to feed ones treats.  I found out about the 1000 piece puzzle that Jane has been talking about- This has been sent to the game creators…. These creators are supposed to go to the wikipedia and create their own entry on the creators page.  This would make it wonderfully easy to track them down and find out what piece they got in the mail since they are all supposed to have the pieces.  If they are gathering- I can’t find where they are doing so…

Long story short: There isnt much cohesion in the community right now. Our goals are unclear and our process is almost non-existant.  I am starting new wiki pages at _http://gameful.org/wiki/index.php/Fiero_Monster and _http://gameful.org/wiki/index.php/Treats to try and start some community information gathering going on on the wiki page… Alot is known to everyone but not alot is being shared and I think starting to Wiki our findings is key to coming to a solution.

PS- anyone know more ways to get treats?

Treats Now Have Value

Apr 2, 2011 at 8:23 pm in post by Robin Hughes

Yes that is right. Treats now are very valuable.

How can they possibly be valuable?
Here is a list of reasons you might have for thinking they have very limited value.
1. I earn lots of treats for doing next to nothing
2. There are a lot of people out there that seem all to eager to get rid of them.
3. I seem to get most benefit when I give them all away.
4. There is nothing useful I can buy with treats.
5. I don’t have the time to earn many treats.

I have news for you
1. The amount of treats you can earn through doing next to nothing is very limited
2. It only takes one person to place value on treats
4. Salt was worth far more then Gold. Salt is an inexpensive commodity now. Why is this?
5. I need things done. You can earn treats for completing tasks for me.
6. I will be needing a heap of treats, so as to pay people for completing tasks.
7. You can pay me in treats to do almost anything, provided the price is right.

What other things can you do with treats?
1. Hoard them and get to the top of the leader boards
2. Improve your Gameful Index
3. Give them away
4. Use them as rewards
5. Bank them and earn interest
6. Borrow them and pay interest
7. Play lottery games
8. Play other treat games.

Trick and Treat!

Mar 21, 2011 at 10:43 pm in post by Robin Knipe

While blundering aimlessly around the Gameful site I recently came across a group The Game is Giving. A good discussion on treats the Gameful index and what the point of it all is, or should be. As part of one of the forum topics the gang were wondering ‘what drives the Gameful index’? Something I was curious about as a newbie, but quickly dismissed as a simple ratio of the number of treats given verses the total acquired. Sure enough, as a late-comer to the topic, I saw that the gang had come to pretty much the same conclusion, and there was even a spoiler containing the Gameful index code! Hosanna! at last it was all cleared up, or so I thought…

To put my naturally scientific and mistrustful nature to rest over the matter, I conducted an experiment to check the maths. I gave a friend some treats – sure enough my balance went down and my index went up. Great! But oh no. Doing the sums it seemed that the numbers were wrong something else was going on here. I’m still not sure how the index is calculated, but it got me thinking. After joining the 2nd Gameful Challenge group I noticed that I had lost some of my treats! These two events got me thinking: ‘What would happen to the index if I could get negative treats? Was it even possible to get a negative treat balance?’

I knew it was not possible to give away more treats than you had in balance, but what about the group deduction? I calculated that with nearly 200 groups in Gameful, each with a -25 treat penalty for joining, I could easily wipe out my current balance and get good and in debt to boot! If the current generation has taught me anything, and it hasn’t, it’s that getting up to your eyeballs in debt is a natural part of life, so what the hell? I threw caution to the wind and went on a streak of wild philanthropy and soon had a balance of only 4 treats! Time to test the negative balance theory…

It turns out that there is no treat credit system as yet in Gameful! Obviously this means there is a massive potential for the first Gameful treat bank to lure unsuspecting monsters into crippling debt! But also exposes a nice little loop-hole in the Gameful “treat-onomics“! If you’ve not yet guessed what it is, you can find out at the group I created for exactly this kind of Gameful phenomenon:
Gameful Cheats and Hacks

Favour points

Mar 15, 2011 at 6:14 pm in post by Jeff Rose

I feel as though I had a revelation earlier today, and I figured I’d do best to share it with Gameful because my thought is on a subject of some interest to improving the Gameful Game itself: Economics. I’m really only trained in the basics of economics, so I’m 100% sure I’m rehashing a major discussion in economic theory here. If you know your stuff, feel free to inform everyone, correct me or add to the discussion in whatever way you like.

Anyway.

What gives a currency its value? I’ve been seeing discussions popping up in a number of forum groups about the donation of treats, what treats are worth, what they are good for, and the like. _theprofssr has started some games to get treat donations going and to establish some flow of currency in the economy as well, but right now it seems like we have no reference point for what a treat is worth. He has also started a group called _http://gameful.org/groups/the-game-is-giving/forum/topic/ideas-for-a-treat-economy/ on this subject.

The most fundamental types of trade that exist seem to be either goods or services. Goods have value because people need or want goods for something, whether that be survival, construction, or just because we think something is pretty. This value is then modified by market supply and demand factors.

Services (in a digital marketplace) probably boil down mainly to factors such as any special knowledge and skills required to provide the service and supply and demand factors.

And this is easy to think of when we’re all used to using money and it was always a part of our environment, but how did currency take on value when currency was a brand new technology? How did goods and services take on value so abstractly represented before anyone knew how much anything was worth, and had never trusted someone to pay them a metal chip for their goat, rather than grain that might feed a family for a month? And how do we get this concept of value to emerge in the treat system here on Gameful?

See, we’re in a similar situation. Everyone on Gameful has treats. We can trade treats with one-another, but we don’t have a use for them yet. We’re in a state of total confusion with regards to what being generous in treat donations means or what “a lot” of treats is. As of right now, there is little incentive for someone to become a merchant offering goods or services in trade for treats, because without other merchants dealing in the same, the treats he/she gets paid will not be able to be spent on anything of value to him/her and thus, the treats have no real value, and the merchant monster goes hungry.

So what strategies might we use to bring about this communal sense of value? This trust that when you do something for me, that the amount I have offered in trade is a good deal and is fair? My first thought was for Gameful to offer monster items, superpowers, titles, etc. that are purchased for fixed numbers of points. This gives everyone on Gameful a frame of reference to refer to for price, and then a user can participate in trades of goods or services, thinking something like “I’ll make that wiki article for you, because you’re giving me enough treats to buy a guitar for my monster. This is a good deal for both of us.” Treats become favour points.

If you have any other ideas for giving market value to treats other than this top-down expression of value, please contribute! We should get as many ideas circulating on this subject as possible.

But we don’t want people hoarding treats and refusing to donate treats to people for thoughtful, useful or otherwise interesting posts. How do we accomplish the establishment of an economy by giving value to treats while encouraging the donation of treats as their most fundamental use?